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nopeda

Basic clothing questions

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In the past I've always worn long underwear then a flannel shirt and bluejeans over that, and then put on other stuff from there. But several places I've seen people suggest staying away from cotton entirely which I'm guessing flannel and bluejeans are both made of. Most places suggest fleece. Is that just jogging/sweatshirt type clothing and is it good to wear that instead of flannel or bluejeans? I always wear an outer shell jacket and ski pants both gortex, so just long underwear, fleece, and ski pants for covering your lower body? Is that good enough or is there a more sturdy type of pants that's good to wear between the fleece and ski pants that's not made of cotton? And that would do well as a sturdy pant over the fleece when not wearing ski pants when you're not skiing or snowmobiling? What about a non-cotton shirt to take the place of flannel? Just do a fleece jogging or sweatshirt type of thing?

Thank you for any help about such basics!
David

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Definitely never cotton. Holds water and will make you cold. I'm in the less is more school, polypropylene - thin or heavy weight depending on how cold, insulated or non insulated ski pants - always waterproof for bottoms and similar for the top, polypropylene base with a jacket, sometimes a fleece vest or pull over and jacket - insulated or non depending on temps.

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My usual ensamble is pretty basic.  Underarmour Cold Gear base layer (long underwear) and insulated ski/snowboard pants. Make sure they're ventilated, and can zip out the liner and wash it separately. 

The top is another UA base layer and depending on the temp I might wear a mid layer. Its something like this: https://www.steepandcheap.com/avalanche-full-zip-fleece-sweater-mens?CMP_ID=PLA_GOc005BR&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&k_clickid=_k_Cj0KCQiA7briBRD7ARIsABhX8aCkT9bHLyLieVU_4iJiMxkqe1FKLJ_WAlBoqXP8oQziasBdX7_1298aAm9bEALw_wcB_k_&rmatt=tsid:1042825|cid:794135704|agid:38918409302|tid:pla-295268988465|crid:189292992615|nw:g|rnd:16981676258853574323|dvc:c|adp:1o4|mt:|loc:9041514&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7briBRD7ARIsABhX8aCkT9bHLyLieVU_4iJiMxkqe1FKLJ_WAlBoqXP8oQziasBdX7_1298aAm9bEALw_wcB

My coat is probably the nicest I've ever owned and have since become a believer in the new clothing technologies.  

One important thing to note, as Infinite Dreams makes mention of, is to avoid cotton. This goes for your socks especially. This isn't for everyone, but I've found the thinner the better- and be sure they're the type that can wick moisture and not trap it. Thats how you end up with cold toes. 

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Smartwool Socks

Image result for SmartWool PHD Medium Ski Socks

 

Nike Pro Combat Baselayer

Image result for nike cold pro combat leggings

 

UnderArmour ColdGear

Image result for under armour coldgear long sleeve turtleneck

 

Image result for nike pro combat mask

 

 

DAKINE - Storm Liner Touch-Screen Compatible Glove - Black

&

Hestra - Heli Ski Junior Glove - Kids'  - Black

 

Add Insulated Ski Pants and Jacket 

 

Keeps me warm unless it gets into the negatives, at which time I'll probably add another mid layer or a vest underneath my jacket. 

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For lower body most of the time I just have a pair of fleece pants and my insulated ski pants. I'll add a Patagonia long underwear base layer only on really cold days. Last year was the first year I started doing that.

Upper body I wear either a lightweight or midweight  base layer (Marmot or Patagonia are the brands I use) and then I have a Columbia 3-in-1 Ski jacket. When it is really cold (<10-15 or so) I'll add a zip up fleece. In the spring I can take the jacket apart to have a lighter jacket. 

For socks I'm a huge fan of the Darn Tough ultra-light ski socks.

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Lower body: long underwear (I have at least 3 different thicknesses to choose from) then I wear a pair of fleece pants - they are brushed on the inside smooth on the outside that I can wear after skiing without getting too many strange looks. Also have a thicker pair of fleece pants I wear on really cold days. Then I have uninsulated ski pants. I like the versatility of uninsulated shell pants and jackets.

Upper body: non cotton t-shirt, Long sleeve poly type shirt (same as pants as I have multiple thickness options). Then I wear either a fleece jacket (once again multiple options) or on real cold days a mid weight down jacket. Then finally a shell jacket.

 

Nevah evah cotton even underwear is not cotton. No not silk panties either :)

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2 minutes ago, Smellytele said:

Lower body: long underwear (I have at least 3 different thicknesses to choose from) then I wear a pair of fleece pants - they are brushed on the inside smooth on the outside that I can wear after skiing without getting too many strange looks. Also have a thicker pair of fleece pants I wear on really cold days. Then I have uninsulated ski pants. I like the versatility of uninsulated shell pants and jackets.

Upper body: non cotton t-shirt, Long sleeve poly type shirt (same as pants as I have multiple thickness options). Then I wear either a fleece jacket (once again multiple options) or on real cold days a mid weight down jacket. Then finally a shell jacket.

 

Nevah evah cotton even underwear is not cotton. No not silk panties either :)

Talk to me more about fleece pants. Have never considered them. Any thin fleece pants that anyone can recommend? And what is the point of them? Ass insulation on the lift?

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1 minute ago, Weatherman said:

Talk to me more about fleece pants. Have never considered them. Any thin fleece pants that anyone can recommend? And what is the point of them? Ass insulation on the lift?

With non-insulated ski pants long johns don't seem to cut it so they are the insulation layer. And as I noted I can mix and match depending on temp.

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3 minutes ago, Weatherman said:

Talk to me more about fleece pants. Have never considered them. Any thin fleece pants that anyone can recommend? And what is the point of them? Ass insulation on the lift?

If it's >20 I wear a thin leg base layer.  If it's <20 I wear 'hot chilly's' brand, which are basically thin tight fleece.  If it's <0 sometimes I wear thicker fleece pants (EMS brand). The point?  Stay warm.

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1 hour ago, Weatherman said:

Talk to me more about fleece pants. Have never considered them. Any thin fleece pants that anyone can recommend? And what is the point of them? Ass insulation on the lift?

These are the ones I use mainly:

https://www.campmor.com/c/white-sierra-baz-az-pant-29----mens

I have a more expensive pair from Marmot too, but I notice virtually no difference and ended up buying a few more of this cheap White Sierra brand one.

I like that I can wear them as actual pants after skiing too when I take off my ski pants. 

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5 hours ago, Smellytele said:

Lower body: long underwear (I have at least 3 different thicknesses to choose from) then I wear a pair of fleece pants - they are brushed on the inside smooth on the outside that I can wear after skiing without getting too many strange looks. Also have a thicker pair of fleece pants I wear on really cold days. Then I have uninsulated ski pants. I like the versatility of uninsulated shell pants and jackets.

Upper body: non cotton t-shirt, Long sleeve poly type shirt (same as pants as I have multiple thickness options). Then I wear either a fleece jacket (once again multiple options) or on real cold days a mid weight down jacket. Then finally a shell jacket.

 

Nevah evah cotton even underwear is not cotton. No not silk panties either :)

Silk is a great insulator!  

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Talk to me more about fleece pants. Have never considered them. Any thin fleece pants that anyone can recommend? And what is the point of them? Ass insulation on the lift?
So I only wear these on extreme days (
https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/90051?page=active-smooth-face-fleece-pant-mens-regular

As to socks I third and fourth the mention of ultralight socks, Haven tried Darn Tough but wear Smart Wool PHD ULs.

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Back to the OP @nopeda.... If I remember from your earlier posts you are more of a snowmobiler than skier/snowboarder.   If that's true it's probably a little less of a big deal.  The biggest problem with cotton is that it holds moisture, so if you get wet you get cold.  For skiing/snowboarding exertion = sweat = wet, then you sit on a lift and get cold.   For snowmobiling the exertion/sweating is a little less so you don't get so wet and cold.  Still, if you ride your sled into a creek or something you'll wish you weren't wearing cotton. 

Also, don't forget that before fancy synthetics wool was a pretty damn good option.  And it's still one of the best.  See Shackleton....

Edited by Cannonballer

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1 hour ago, Cannonballer said:

Back to the OP @nopeda.... If I remember from your earlier posts you are more of a snowmobiler than skier/snowboarder.   If that's true it's probably a little less of a big deal.  The biggest problem with cotton is that it holds moisture, so if you get wet you get cold.  For skiing/snowboarding exertion = sweat = wet, then you sit on a lift and get cold.   For snowmobiling the exertion/sweating is a little less so you don't get so wet and cold.  Still, if you ride your sled into a creek or something you'll wish you weren't wearing cotton. 

Also, don't forget that before fancy synthetics wool was a pretty damn good option.  And it's still one of the best.  See Shackleton....

Actually I live in GA and though we did a fair amount of skiing when I was a kid in PA haven't done much of anything the past quite a few years. Things have changed a lot. Back then a lot of people skied in jeans, most of the ski pants were very tight and had a part that went into your boot going under your foot. You wore boots that were oversize so you could put on extra socks in them (that's another issue I'm trying to learn about). Never heard of gortex or thinsulate back then. We always wore cotton long underwear. Last year I rode a snowmobile for the first time. In February I'm going to Maine and hope to ski a few times...try cross country which I've never done plus some downhill (Alpine?). And if I'm lucky get to ride a snowmobile again. I haven't thought about this stuff in detail really ever because as a kid we didn't have today's options and just had to wear whatever we had anyway. Got some thinsulate boots I wore on the snowmobile adventures last year (2 days, about 80 miles total) and it's the first time in my life I spent several hours in the snow and my feet didn't get really cold. Didn't get cold at all in fact. At this point I'm hoping to move to Maine if I can get a job around Bangor or west of there and learn more about winter and winter activities which I always loved as a kid and then haven't been able to experience in any significant way since 7th grade. I'm now 59 years old, but in decent shape afaik (you never really know what might be lurking that you're not aware of after 50) and would like to get some real winter experience while I'm still able to enjoy it. Winter in GA is like a bad joke...probably like a really bad fall in other places raining and around 30-50 degrees most of the time. When it does snow it looks great at first. Then it gets warm during the day and starts to melt, but unless it's really windy it doesn't dry up so if it gets cold again at night it gets really icy, continuing like that into morning traffic the following day...

I'll order a medium and large wool shirt from ebay, some WHITE SIERRA pants and try to find a similar fleece shirt, and look more into thin sock options to go with the different type ski boots being used today. Looking at wool flannel shirts on ebay it seems that almost all the options are for previously owned. Does that sound right? If so, why aren't there a lot of new options as well? Are they becoming obsolete?

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It makes sense to avoid cotton because it absorbs moisture. But in another forum one of the members said he likes cotton as an under layer because it absorbs his sweat, and then he makes sure to wear outer layers that prevent moisture from the snow from getting down to the cotton. So that makes sense too? What happens to your own sweat of there isn't a layer to absorb it? Does it trickle down into your pants and boots?

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Absolutely no cotton. Skip the flannel. Cotton absorbs moisture and then it just sits there against your body making you cold. Good base layers get the moisture away from your skin and won't stay permanently wet for the entire day. Jeans might work for learning at a flatland ski hill but in single digits and below Maine, you'll be suffering. A pair of insulated ski pants is a very worth while investment. I am sure you could get a good outdoor pant that could double for sledding and skiing.

You want base layers, top and bottoms, in various weights. Get a light weight, mid-weight, and heavy weight top and bottom and then mix and match based on the weather and your level of activity. You'll want polyester based materials. Merino wool is also great but a lot more expensive. Base layers should be close to the skin. They will keep you both warm and dry throughout the entire day.

For ski socks, light weight with a snug fitting boot. Even on sub-zero days, my go to socks are ultra-lights. You don't want heavy/bulky ski socks and you absolutely do not want cotton socks. 

For Cross Country skiing, you definitely need different layering than alpine skiing since CC is more active and less exposed to high mountain elements. I can't comment on CC specific clothing but when I hike and ski, I focus much more on layering and usually hike in a mid-weight top and very thin spring/fall insulated shell, right down to below zero with no wind. Essentially, you'll want lighter layers CC than alpine.

Here are some okay resources:

https://www.evo.com/guides/how-to-choose-ski-snowboard-baselayers-long-underwear

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/underwear.html

https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/how-to-choose-ski-and-snowboard-socks.html

Not sure about sledding but I assume the basics are the same for base layers with probably more focus on wind and weather resistant outwear on top. Probably need slightly warmer layering since you are just sitting on a sled and not generating as much body heat compared to more active outdoors activities like skiing. 

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8 hours ago, thesnowway said:

Not sure about sledding but I assume the basics are the same for base layers with probably more focus on wind and weather resistant outwear on top. Probably need slightly warmer layering since you are just sitting on a sled and not generating as much body heat compared to more active outdoors activities like skiing. 

Really depends on where you riding, open trails and lakes yeah you may not generate heat but if your in tight trails climbing up steeps and your working. not to mention if someone gets stuck and you have to dig out a sled....youll be soaked in a heartbeat ! So yeah no cotton at all, your sweat should be able to breath out of your clothes away from your body.

 

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12 hours ago, nopeda said:

It makes sense to avoid cotton because it absorbs moisture. But in another forum one of the members said he likes cotton as an under layer because it absorbs his sweat, and then he makes sure to wear outer layers that prevent moisture from the snow from getting down to the cotton. So that makes sense too? What happens to your own sweat of there isn't a layer to absorb it? Does it trickle down into your pants and boots?

The non cotton layer "wicks" the moisture away. and passes it to the next layer up. If your outer shell works well then it passes out through. If it doesn't moisture can build up inside your jacket. The colder it is (to a point) I want a better shell that transfers the moisture out. What happens when it is cold the moisture freezes in the last layer and doesn't pass through.

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Lots of great advice in this thread so I won't list everything I do.

I will say:

Skip the Smartwool socks and get Darn Tough instead. Made in Vermont and lifetime warranty (which I've tested and it works)! 

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20 hours ago, nopeda said:

Actually I live in GA and though we did a fair amount of skiing when I was a kid in PA haven't done much of anything the past quite a few years. Things have changed a lot. . . . I'm hoping to move to Maine if I can get a job around Bangor or west of there and learn more about winter and winter activities which I always loved as a kid and then haven't been able to experience in any significant way since 7th grade. I'm now 59 years old, but in decent shape afaik (you never really know what might be lurking that you're not aware of after 50) and would like to get some real winter experience while I'm still able to enjoy it. Winter in GA is like a bad joke...probably like a really bad fall in other places raining and around 30-50 degrees most of the time. When it does snow it looks great at first. Then it gets warm during the day and starts to melt, but unless it's really windy it doesn't dry up so if it gets cold again at night it gets really icy, continuing like that into morning traffic the following day...

Hello!  I'm in North Carolina.  Have connections to Boston so that's one reason I hang around here.

You might check thrift or consignment shops, especially those near a university.  Right now you may get lucky and find base layers or even jackets or ski pants.  I got a nice Columbia fleece vest in late Dec when my daughter wanted to go shopping.  I'm over 60 by the way.  Moved from NYC to NC in the 1970s.  Talk about culture shock!  The first winter schools were closed in central NC for a week after 8 inches of snow on a Sunday.

Buy at least a couple pairs of good ski socks.  There are several good merino wool brands.  Thinner is actually better if you want to be able to control your skis.  Nothing inside ski boots, only the socks.

Freeport in Maine has several outlets that carry ski clothing and accessories.

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I'll throw in a vote for Kinco 901 gloves. Hands down the warmest, most durable glove I have ever owned and only cost $23. Going on 3 years with my current pair with no signs of quitting.

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18 hours ago, StraightSkis said:

I'll throw in a vote for Kinco 901 gloves. Hands down the warmest, most durable glove I have ever owned and only cost $23. Going on 3 years with my current pair with no signs of quitting.

+1 on Kinco, though I'm partial to the 1927KW. Can't beat the price or the warmth in my opinion.

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