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I drove up to Jay because they claimed to be spinning lower mountain lifts Saturday. They didn't. Wildcat was smart to throw in the towel early and spare people the trip.

It was extremely windy. My buddy and I ended hiking up Jay to not make it a waste of a day. Huge gusts would come down the mountain and you'd have to dig in to keep from being blown over. 

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5 hours ago, MassNerd said:

I drove up to Jay because they claimed to be spinning lower mountain lifts Saturday. They didn't. Wildcat was smart to throw in the towel early and spare people the trip.

It was extremely windy. My buddy and I ended hiking up Jay to not make it a waste of a day. Huge gusts would come down the mountain and you'd have to dig in to keep from being blown over. 

Honestly, they probably knew that most lifts wouldn't run on Saturday, but didn't want to dissuade people from coming. Especially for Jay, a lot of people are doing weekend trips, not day trips, so they don't want people to not come at all when they could enjoy the water park on Sat and ski on Sun. I wish they would be more forthcoming about conditions. All they need to say is something like:

"High winds are forecast for tomorrow. We will do our best to get the lower mountain lifts spinning, but there is the real possibility that they won't run in the morning."

Honesty wins out in the long run. Or at least it should!

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On 2/8/2019 at 5:33 PM, fcksummer said:

The correct answer is an honest prediction on the afternoon and early morning report.

"We're expecting heavy winds and may not be able to run lifts but will make every attempt to open" or something along those lines. 

 

Throwing in the towel a day ahead seems kinda odd. What if winds aren't as bad as forecasted?

I like this method. Sugarbush often warns of potential impacts to lifts in their report if there are high winds in the forecast. I was honestly pleasantly surprised on Saturday. Mt Ellen was essentially completely shut down with nearly all lifts closed due to wind on Saturday. However Lincoln Peak only had Heaven's Gate on hold in the morning and even that came off hold later in the day. Super Bravo had virtually no wind at all from 8AM-9AM although then things shifted a bit and it got a little windy (but not enough to close the lift). I think warning people of a possibility of closures ahead of time is right. Deciding ahead of time to close is a bit risky as forecasts are not always accurate, although I guess ultimately that needs to be up to individual mountains as they know their weather and lift systems the best.

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Some recaps on this question, response, and outcomes from last weekend's example....

@ABV,  @Jully,  @Infinite Dreams, and @thesnowway  all said that they prefer having a mountain make preemptive call to close in advance.  It saves you from making the drive and generally wasting your time.

@fcksummer,  @GrewUpSkiingWachusett, and @cdskier  advocated for honest reporting that warns people about high winds and likely closures, but without taking it so far as to actually cancel in advance just in case conditions are better than forecasted.

@MassNerd  actually experienced the issue by driving all the way to Jay only to find that they were closed.  In hindsight he likes Wildcat's method of calling it early

What actually happened this past weekend?  A sampling:

- Cannon didn't preemptively close even though pretty much everyone thought they'd be shutdown.  That ended up being the right call because they mostly were able to open (Cannonball and Tram were on windhold).

- Wildcat did preemptively close.  The decision was a little easier for them because they directed people to down the road to Attitash.  Hard to say if this was the right call or not.  Attitash had early windholds themselves that lead to long lift lines (from handling 2 resorts worth of skiers with limited lifts open).  But Attitash did get their lifts running late morning and announced that the wind had died down much earlier than expected.  So maybe Wildcat could have opened too?  

- Jay went out on a limb saying that they expected to open the lower mountain....but they didn't.

- Other mountains (like Sugarbush and Loon) had the typical delayed openings and partial closures that any skier should expect on a windy day.  

Based on all of that I'm in the camp that prefers very honest reporting about potential and likely closures, but without going so far as to shut down in advance. 

 

 

Edited by Cannonballer
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13 minutes ago, Cannonballer said:

Some recaps on this question, response, and outcomes from last weekend's example....

@ABV,  @Jully,  @Infinite Dreams, and @thesnowway  all said that they prefer having a mountain make preemptive call to close in advance.  It saves you from making the drive and generally wasting your time.

@fcksummer,  @GrewUpSkiingWachusett, and @cdskier  advocated for honest reporting that warns people about high winds and likely closures, but without taking it so far as to actually cancel in advance just in case conditions are better than forecasted.

@MassNerd  actually experienced the issue by driving all the way to Jay only to find that they were closed.  In hindsight he likes Wildcat's method of calling it early

What actually happened this past weekend?  A sampling:

- Cannon didn't preemptively close even though pretty much everyone thought they'd be shutdown.  That ended up being the right call because they mostly were able to open (Cannonball and Tram were on windhold).

- Wildcat did preemptively close.  The decision was a little easier for them because they directed people to down the road to Attitash.  Hard to say if this was the right call or not.  Attitash had early windholds themselves that lead to long lift lines (from handling 2 resorts worth of skiers with limited lifts open).  But Attitash did get their lifts running late morning and announced that the wind had died down much earlier than expected.  So maybe Wildcat could have opened too?  

- Jay went out on a limb saying that they expected to open the lower mountain....but they didn't.

- Other mountains (like Sugarbush and Loon) had the typical delayed openings and partial closures that any skier should expect on a windy day.  

Based on all of that I'm in the camp that prefers very honest reporting about potential and likely closures, but without going so far as to shut down in advance. 

 

 

The Tram and Cannonball never opened on Saturday, so no summit access all day. just mentioning that 

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2 hours ago, Cannonballer said:

Based on all of that I'm in the camp that prefers very honest reporting about potential and likely closures, but without going so far as to shut down in advance. 

I should clarify my perspective and say that I am happy Wildcat in particular does that. I am glad there are resorts that try on windy days as I still want to try and ski. I just am glad I'll never be tempted to try Wildcat on those days! 

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I disagree with the category I was added to in the above summary. It missed the nuance of my thoughts on the matter:

"If it is a boarderline call, make that clear in the snow report and give it a shot. But if there is essentially 0% of running, don't roll the dice on that 1% and make skiers waste hours driving to/from various mountains or sitting in a lodge waiting for the inevitable call."

So to rephrase, if there is a 99% chance of wind hold, just call it off. Otherwise, be up front in the snow report and see what happens.

If Jay said that they only expected to open the lower mountain (Taxi Quad, Metro Quad etc. No Jet/Bonnie which are considered upper mountain), then they did a pretty good job reporting and it was a waste of time even trying if they already announced lower mountain lifts only. If lower mountain lifts didn't run, who cares if you are not a beginner or park skier?

Edited by thesnowway

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I disagree with the category I was added to in the above summary. It missed the nuance of my thoughts on the matter:"If it is a boarderline call, make that clear in the snow report and give it a shot. But if there is essentially 0% of running, don't roll the dice on that 1% and make skiers waste hours driving to/from various mountains or sitting in a lodge waiting for the inevitable call." So to rephrase, if there is a 99% chance of wind hold, just call it off. Otherwise, be up front in the snow report and see what happens.

If Jay said that they only expected to open the lower mountain (Taxi Quad, Metro Quad etc. No Jet/Bonnie which are considered upper mountain), then they did a pretty good job reporting and it was a waste of time even trying if they already announced lower mountain lifts only. If lower mountain lifts didn't run, who cares if you are not a beginner or park skier?

 

 

Fair enough, consider your category changed. But seriously is there ever really a situation (in any aspect of life) where 99% certainly exists? And if so, where it gets treated differently than 100%? What exactly is your standard for "borderline"? 95%, 80%, 50%?  

.

In this example Wildcat and Cannon and Jay all had pretty equal probabilities of being able to operate. Certainly none were at 99% confidence. They each made different calls and each had different outcomes. One chose not to try and may or not have been right about it, one chose to try and it turned out well, one chose to try and failed. Nothing inherently right or wrong about the decision making. Just an interesting question about how one plays the odds for themselves and their customers.

 

 

 

 

 

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19 hours ago, Cannonballer said:
19 hours ago, ABV said:
The Tram and Cannonball never opened on Saturday, so no summit access all day. just mentioning that 

Yes, I said that in my post.

Yeah sorry guess I missed the All day part , I assumed since some were able to open a little later in the morning they would have too ....Opps my bad !

 

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I like Peaks early call, being in Pinkham notch, winds are almost always worse up there.  Obviously in this case, Attitash did not bail them out well.  But as they market the two areas as joined at the hip, this makes total sense to me.  And with scarce facilities at the base to entertain would be guests sitting out total wind holds, seems brilliant to me.  Send them down to Attitash where there are more options off hill.  Wouldn't really work anywhere else in the East.  The only thing close maybe is Boyne, but that is a seasonal decision (SR early in call, Sugarloaf goes the latest in the Spring and Loon slots where it can).

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On 2/8/2019 at 2:58 PM, Flying Yeti said:

It was directed to the post below yours lol

 

I completely agree. I'd assume for attracting first timers/newbies, they would be more likely to make their way back and try another time than go and have a miserable experience.

This is a really important point. You don't want to scare away first-timers with a bad experience. I'm not sure it's part of their thought process, but it should be.

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4 hours ago, Benski said:

On the other hand last night, Greek had half there mountain closed and never put it in there trail report.

That's when you ski it anyway and if patrol gives you crap refer to what is listed as open on the report. It got me out of a few questions lol

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