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Have a buddy who knows somebody on the inside at Cannon. Not supposed to spread this too much so dont share it anywhere else please

 

bansheequad-copy.thumb.jpg.347360d8ec813d34036f4b7c7a822284.jpg

 

Thoughts?

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That would be pretty cool running up and over the cliff. Where I would love to see a lift is from red ball up to the top of mittersill. Then have trails cut down from the top. I know it won’t happen but can dream


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5 minutes ago, Smellytele said:

That would be pretty cool running up and over the cliff. Where I would love to see a lift is from red ball up to the top of mittersill. Then have trails cut down from the top. I know it won’t happen but can dream


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Nice pitch over there and plenty of terrain to work with. I would just worry about the snowpack. Hardscrabbles seem to be the first spots to get blown out...

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Not a regular at Cannon, but I'm not totally certain I see the point of the lift? It's hard to get over to the tram base on intermediate terrain (what most of the people who ski are skiing) so it seems odd to stick a HSQ there.

Be sweet for lapping kinsman though.

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7 hours ago, Jully said:

Not a regular at Cannon, but I'm not totally certain I see the point of the lift? It's hard to get over to the tram base on intermediate terrain (what most of the people who ski are skiing) so it seems odd to stick a HSQ there.

Be sweet for lapping kinsman though.

Intermediates could ski across tram cutback to get back there but it would be just as shitting getting to the banshee slopes down the ice chute from avalanche. Regrading there may help.

I think the base of this quad would be up hill from Kinsman.

If they do some regrading and you can ski from the tram lodge to it On the days that the tram isn't running it will allow people to park at the tram and use the tram "lodge". Putting in that larger gift shop took away all the seating though and now you just have 4 or 5 tables to sit at there.

 

Having this lift would also put more people onto bypass and extension which get scraped off a lot already.

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Does cannon have a problem with large amounts of ppl accidentally ending up at tram base when the tram isn't running (for any reason- weather or regular schedule)? I would guess no but that's the only way I can think this new lift would potentially help. That said, I think it would be a cool chair ride from a scenery perspective, especially if it were not high speed.

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I like the idea of investment in making Cannon a better place to ski. That said, I'm skeptical of this lift. 

I love doing tram laps. The two best parts about tram laps are the runs off of the top, so Vista Way, Tram Way, and Upper Cannon, and the bottom runs in the Zoomer pod, so Avalanche, Polly's, Banshee. Bypass and Extension, which I take all of the time to connect the two, are some of my least favorite trails at Cannon because of how scraped off they already get. It looks like this chairlift basically let's you lap Bypass/Extension and Zoomer, but doesn't get you the great trails up top like Vista Way. Plus, Bypass/Extension will get even more scraped off! Yes, I know that you don't need to take Bypass/Extension when doing tram laps, and you won't have to with this new lift, but if you want to ski the upper portion of Avalanche and traverse over to Banshee/Jasper, Bypass/Extension are the easiest way to do it. So for that reason alone, I am skeptical.

Although I love high speed lifts, I actually think this should be a fixed grip. The slope is fairly steep here, so even a fixed grip will give you a decent amount of vertical for the ride time. A high speed will lead to Bypass/Extension getting skied out even faster than a fixed grip would. Unless Cannon dramatically expands Kinsman Glade, which I would love, I would hope that you couldn't lap Kinsman Glade with the new lift because then Kinsman would get tracked out even faster than it already does!

The one thing that I would really appreciate about the new lift would be the trail directly under the lift, which would have a similar pitch to DJ's and be really fun (not sure if it goes directly over the cliffs or not though). If they do create this new lift, I would love it if they could build new trails (preferably glades) that go off of Extension and meet up with Banshee. That would help spread traffic out. Expanding Kinsman Glade would be huge too. It's a great trail, but it isn't very wide and gets skied out fairly quickly. 

@fcksummer thank you for sharing this.

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Hard to expand kinsman as it is in a gully with slope on skiers right and a stream with slope beyond on the left


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1 hour ago, Cannonballer said:

The most exciting part of this is the development of the new "Banshee Base Barn Brewhouse".

 

 

Oooooooooo sounds tasty!  

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2 hours ago, Cannonballer said:

The most exciting part of this is the development of the new "Banshee Base Barn Brewhouse".

That sounds cool. Could we get the brewhouse without the lift 😂? Other than a few select days, Cannon doesn't really need any more uphill capacity for the amount of terrain available. If the problem is people parking at the tram when it isn't running, what about a rope tow to the bottom of Zoomer? It would require a bit of earth moving, but it would require a fraction of the resources of a new lift. 

My bigger worry is that Cannon can't afford to replace the tram when it needs to be taken offline. There were roughly 40 years in between Tram 1.0 and Tram 2.0. We're getting close to the 40 year mark for Tram 2.0. They will extend its life as long as possible, but at some point they will have to replace it with another tram, with another lift, or with nothing. For context, it's worth reading this post: https://liftblog.com/2016/08/22/will-north-america-build-a-new-tram-ever-again/

The cost of building tramways in North America has gone way up. Jackson Hole paid $30 million for their replacement 10 years ago, but they have owners with deep pockets who wanted to keep their iconic Big Red. Cannon doesn't have that kind of money, though the Cannon tram is shorter so it might cost less. I'm almost worried that this lift is preparing for a future where Cannon can't afford to replace the tram. 

 

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3 hours ago, GrewUpSkiingWachusett said:

That sounds cool. Could we get the brewhouse without the lift 😂? Other than a few select days, Cannon doesn't really need any more uphill capacity for the amount of terrain available. If the problem is people parking at the tram when it isn't running, what about a rope tow to the bottom of Zoomer? It would require a bit of earth moving, but it would require a fraction of the resources of a new lift. 

My bigger worry is that Cannon can't afford to replace the tram when it needs to be taken offline. There were roughly 40 years in between Tram 1.0 and Tram 2.0. We're getting close to the 40 year mark for Tram 2.0. They will extend its life as long as possible, but at some point they will have to replace it with another tram, with another lift, or with nothing. For context, it's worth reading this post: https://liftblog.com/2016/08/22/will-north-america-build-a-new-tram-ever-again/

The cost of building tramways in North America has gone way up. Jackson Hole paid $30 million for their replacement 10 years ago, but they have owners with deep pockets who wanted to keep their iconic Big Red. Cannon doesn't have that kind of money, though the Cannon tram is shorter so it might cost less. I'm almost worried that this lift is preparing for a future where Cannon can't afford to replace the tram. 

 

Tram makes more money in the summer than winter. The overall park does.  

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Well 40 years with the first one was a miracle. The technology in 1938 was a lot different than in 1980. 1980 to now isn’t a big of a jump in tram technology.


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Absolutely pointless unless Cannon is planning to run the tram summer only and not in winter in which case it might make a little bit of sense. 

Just what Cannon needs... more high intensity traffic being placed right above the Links and hitting the Avalanche to Banshee ice shelf. Good grief.

 

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17 hours ago, Puck it said:

Tram makes more money in the summer than winter. The overall park does.  

Good point. I sometimes forget about the summer traffic that the tram gets. 

 

15 hours ago, Smellytele said:

Well 40 years with the first one was a miracle. The technology in 1938 was a lot different than in 1980. 1980 to now isn’t a big of a jump in tram technology.

Absolutely true. Hopefully we can make this one last a lot longer. I am a huge fan of the tram. I will mention though that every lift has an operational lifespan. Though very much not apples-to-apples, many of the early high speed quads built in the mid-to-late 1980s are being replaced. 

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Yes, if I were a Cannon regular I would be affraid if this lift goes in the tram would only run weekends/holidays after it.  Which means only Cannonball service the upper mountain, no thanks.

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Yes, if I were a Cannon regular I would be affraid if this lift goes in the tram would only run weekends/holidays after it.  Which means only Cannonball service the upper mountain, no thanks.
You mean like the current tram schedule?
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2 minutes ago, Cannonballer said:
9 minutes ago, Machski said:
Yes, if I were a Cannon regular I would be affraid if this lift goes in the tram would only run weekends/holidays after it.  Which means only Cannonball service the upper mountain, no thanks.

You mean like the current tram schedule?

Crap, it's that bad now?  Been years since I went to Cannon, that would put a damper on my interest.  In that case, put the damn chair in.  Shocked the install and operating costs would be less than just running the tram.  Only reason I can think of why they would consider this.

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Crap, it's that bad now?  Been years since I went to Cannon, that would put a damper on my interest.  In that case, put the damn chair in.  Shocked the install and operating costs would be less than just running the tram.  Only reason I can think of why they would consider this.
Not quite that bad, but close. Current tram schedule is Friday through Monday.

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1 hour ago, Cannonballer said:
1 hour ago, Machski said:
Crap, it's that bad now?  Been years since I went to Cannon, that would put a damper on my interest.  In that case, put the damn chair in.  Shocked the install and operating costs would be less than just running the tram.  Only reason I can think of why they would consider this.

Not quite that bad, but close. Current tram schedule is Friday through Monday.

Friday through Monday seems fine with me. It's an expensive lift to run I bet, and Cannon just isn't that crowded midweek. In high winds the Tram will be usually be down before Cannonball, so it's not like not having the Tram prevents someone from getting to the top.

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Friday through Monday seems fine with me. It's an expensive lift to run I bet, and Cannon just isn't that crowded midweek. In high winds the Tram will be usually be down before Cannonball, so it's not like not having the Tram prevents someone from getting to the top.

Actually over the mlk weekend the cannonball was down but the tram was running. They even ran it that Tuesday when wind closed the cannonball.


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Actually over the mlk weekend the cannonball was down but the tram was running. They even ran it that Tuesday when wind closed the cannonball.


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Yup, good point, different wind scenarios that effect the operation of the tram vs Cannonball. And often good reasons to run one vs the other.

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15 hours ago, Cannonballer said:
15 hours ago, Smellytele said:

Actually over the mlk weekend the cannonball was down but the tram was running. They even ran it that Tuesday when wind closed the cannonball.


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Yup, good point, different wind scenarios that effect the operation of the tram vs Cannonball. And often good reasons to run one vs the other.

I was going to say, a Tram is much more wind resistant than a monocable ropeway any day of the week.  But the alignments of the 2 do give differing crosswind exposures.  The problem I have always had with Cannon is it is difficult to ski everything you want TTB if the Tram does not run.  Currently without the tram, to ski TTB into front 5 or Tramline/Kinsman you must ride Zoomer to Peabody to Cannonball to get back to the top, two of those being FG.  That stinks, with the added stink of the skate back from Kinsman/Tramline.  I guess given this, I'm all for the new Quad, but only as a HSQ.  And only if the Tram runs if it is wind capable when the Quad goes down for wind (Tram would be more resistant than any chair).

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