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41 minutes ago, SkiMangoJazz said:

By the way SallyCat, you don't have to be a woman to find some of the posters here to be nasty.

 

And what have you been offended by now?

 

 

 

Edited by Puck it

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25 minutes ago, Cannonballer said:

@sallycat I thought you were missing my point. But now I realize you're not missing it, you're dodging it. So I'll just say it again with no other words around it....
Be a contributor.

Ah, I didn't make my point clearly: I don't want to contribute because this is not a pleasant space for me. What you're asking me to do is to ignore the very things that make it unpleasant and just post MTB trip reports and the like. I don't want to share my activities or anything about myself here because it's not a welcoming place for me. That was my point: you're missing interesting and valuable voices. If you want to do something about that, that's up to you. Make this a place that those voices want to spend time.

EDIT: I'm a member of two other online ski communities, btw. One is women-only and the other is my old local forum that's about 95% male. They are both excellent, informative, and fun sites through which I've met lots of wonderful people. There are other options, in other words. NMS fills the need for a New England-specific site, but right now it's in the "not worth it" category. 

Edited by SallyCat

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29 minutes ago, SallyCat said:

Ah, I didn't make my point clearly: I don't want to contribute because this is not a pleasant space for me. What you're asking me to do is to ignore the very things that make it unpleasant and just post MTB trip reports and the like. I don't want to share my activities or anything about myself here because it's not a welcoming place for me. That was my point: you're missing interesting and valuable voices. If you want to do something about that, that's up to you. Make this a place that those voices want to spend time.

EDIT: I'm a member of two other online ski communities, btw. One is women-only and the other is my old local forum that's about 95% male. They are both excellent, informative, and fun sites through which I've met lots of wonderful people. There are other options, in other words. NMS fills the need for a New England-specific site, but right now it's in the "not worth it" category. 

Sorry you feel that way.  We all have our own views and rights even though they differ to others.  

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"If you want to do something about that, that's up to you. Make this a place that those voices want to spend time."

Actually I have been a significant contributer of content that i'm interested in and hopefully are interesting to others. I don't think it's my responsibility to try imagine an infinite number of people who I've never met, then predict all the threads they might click on, then guess at all the things these unknown people might be offended by, then police the forum just in case.
Good luck with your new project. Maybe come back and post a link to it when you're done.

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7 hours ago, Cannonballer said:

"If you want to do something about that, that's up to you. Make this a place that those voices want to spend time."

 I don't think it's my responsibility to try imagine an infinite number of people who I've never met, then predict all the threads they might click on, then guess at all the things these unknown people might be offended by, then police the forum just in case.
 

1

That's a logical fallacy; slippery slope, I think. Or it's just acting like a twelve-year-old. DAD: "Get your feet off the coffee table." KID: "YOU NEVER LET ME DO ANYTHING!"  It's a way to try to deflect the obligation to think about what you did or said and why someone might not agree with you. 

There are not an infinite number of people in the world, and besides that, women are literally half of the human population: Try not to be a jerk to or about them is all. Maybe listen to them when they tell you what it's like to be a female athlete in male-dominated sports or just, you know, in the world. Here's a great place to start, for example:

Or here:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2313816/caroline-gleich-sexism

You could read the many stories that are coming out from women about bullying in the outdoor industry. 

https://www.outsideonline.com/2309306/what-we-can-learn-climbings-bullying-saga

You could read about the difficulties that women face just being online in general:

https://psmag.com/social-justice/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170

You could just read and listen to those things without having to have a response to them. You are not required to respond; you are only being asked to listen.

Or you could just do the thing that every great philosopher from Confucius to Jesus to Mister Rogers instructs us to do: treat other people the way you'd want to be treated.

So, ok, maybe you're not sure about posting sexy pics of female athletes. You like sexy pics of women, right? Who doesn't!? Well, other women for one thing, especially when those pics are of athletes and they don't seem to be particularly....athletic. I bet your Spidey Senses tingled a bit to alert you that posting a sexualized pic of a female athlete was probably not a great idea for some reason. Nah, they're sexy pics! I'll post them! 

Then you get some pushback and you're surprised because you're a good guy. You support women athletes. Your friends on the forum are good guys, too. So this woman complaining should just shut up, because we're nice guys and we support women. So you shout down the buzz-kill interloper who seems to be telling you you're not a nice guy.  That's predictable and understandable. Also boring and stifling. 

The women in the pictures posted on NMS were being displayed as sexual objects, not athletes. (The fact that they are athletes was simply the pretext for taking the pictures). That demeans their athletic accomplishments, it perpetuates a system in which women need to be attractive in a certain way and allow themselves to be objectified in order to get sponsorships and pursue their sports, and it reinforces the notion that women as a whole exist for the purpose of male pleasure.

That last point is dangerous; it perpetuates a culture in which statistics show that women are the victims of violence in extraordinary numbers at the hands of men they know. It deepens the sense of normality when political parties and religious organizations promote patriarchal legislation that curtails women's rights to health care and decent treatment in the workplace. So the way we talk about and visually portray people matters very, very much. What may seem trivial to you may matter a LOT to someone else. 

So I'm just saying that half of the human population experiences the world a bit differently from you, which is why they don't always like the stuff you like. You could spend your time shouting down those people. That's certainly the status quo. Or you could just make a tiny effort to listen.


 

 

 

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That's a logical fallacy; slippery slope, I think. Or it's just acting like a twelve-year-old. DAD: "Get your feet off the coffee table." KID: "YOU NEVER LET ME DO ANYTHING!"  It's a way to try to deflect the obligation to think about what you did or said and why someone might not agree with you. 

There are not an infinite number of people in the world, and besides that, women are literally half of the human population: Try not to be a jerk to or about them is all. Maybe listen to them when they tell you what it's like to be a female athlete in male-dominated sports or just, you know, in the world. Here's a great place to start, for example:

[/url] Or here:

https://www.outsideonline.com/2313816/caroline-gleich-sexism

You could read the many stories that are coming out from women about bullying in the outdoor industry. 

https://www.outsideonline.com/2309306/what-we-can-learn-climbings-bullying-saga

You could read about the difficulties that women face just being online in general:

https://psmag.com/social-justice/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170

You could just read and listen to those things without having to have a response to them. You are not required to respond; you are only being asked to listen.

Or you could just do the thing that every great philosopher from Confucius to Jesus to Mister Rogers instructs us to do: treat other people the way you'd want to be treated.

So, ok, maybe you're not sure about posting sexy pics of female athletes. You like sexy pics of women, right? Who doesn't!? Well, other women for one thing, especially when those pics are of athletes and they don't seem to be particularly....athletic. I bet your Spidey Senses tingled a bit to alert you that posting a sexualized pic of a female athlete was probably not a great idea for some reason. Nah, they're sexy pics! I'll post them! 

Then you get some pushback and you're surprised because you're a good guy. You support women athletes. Your friends on the forum are good guys, too. So this woman complaining should just shut up, because we're nice guys and we support women. So you shout down the buzz-kill interloper who seems to be telling you you're not a nice guy.  That's predictable and understandable. Also boring and stifling. 

The women in the pictures posted on NMS were being displayed as sexual objects, not athletes. (The fact that they are athletes was simply the pretext for taking the pictures). That demeans their athletic accomplishments, it perpetuates a system in which women need to be attractive in a certain way and allow themselves to be objectified in order to get sponsorships and pursue their sports, and it reinforces the notion that women as a whole exist for the purpose of male pleasure.

 

That last point is dangerous; it perpetuates a culture in which statistics show that women are the victims of violence in extraordinary numbers at the hands of men they know. It deepens the sense of normality when political parties and religious organizations promote patriarchal legislation that curtails women's rights to health care and decent treatment in the workplace. So the way we talk about and visually portray people matters very, very much. What may seem trivial to you may matter a LOT to someone else. 

So I'm just saying that half of the human population experiences the world a bit differently from you, which is why they don't always like the stuff you like. You could spend your time shouting down those people. That's certainly the status quo. Or you could just make a tiny effort to listen.

 

My bad, I completely misunderstood your perspective.

 

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Four-time world champion Rachel Atherton of Britain topped the women's qualification standings as the International Cycling Union Downhill Mountain Bike World Cup event in Fort William began today

atherton.jpg

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I also dragged my ass out on to the trails today. I wasn't going to but I got groans and grumbles from my 'other' female MTB partner. Then we barely got on the trail and all she wanted to do was cool her ass in the river. Ended up being a pretty short ride.
IMG_20180602_140227_092.jpg

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She looks sufficiently cooled!!

I also dragged my ass out on to the trails today. I wasn't going to but I got groans and grumbles from my 'other' female MTB partner. Then we barely got on the trail and all she wanted to do was cool her ass in the river. Ended up being a pretty short ride.
IMG_20180602_140227_092.thumb.jpg.31926f10766cbb6f4047ac1638e9d233.jpg


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I think it's the nature of the sports. With skiing, you have everyone pretty much skiing the same line. In MTB DH, each track has multiple lines with varying levels of risk/reward that the riders must choose. Throw in the fact that you also have mechanical failures (flat tires, dropped chains, etc) that you don't normally have in skiing, you get a wider range of times. It's interesting that one of the most technical tracks (Val di Sole) had some of the closest results in the top 3:

Mens

1st. PIERRON Amaury 3:36.788
2nd. GREENLAND Laurie 3:37.312 (+0.524)
3rd. HART Danny 3:37.448 (+0.660)

Womens

1st. SEAGRAVE Tahnee 4:26.424
2nd. ATHERTON Rachel 4:26.547 (+0.123)
3rd. HRASTNIK Monika 4:28.029 (+1.605)

Of course, then you have the Junior Women where Vali Holl is winning every race by 10+ seconds. She won Mont Sainte Anne by over 40 seconds!

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35 minutes ago, 2manyhobbies said:

I think it's the nature of the sports. With skiing, you have everyone pretty much skiing the same line. In MTB DH, each track has multiple lines with varying levels of risk/reward that the riders must choose. Throw in the fact that you also have mechanical failures (flat tires, dropped chains, etc) that you don't normally have in skiing, you get a wider range of times. It's interesting that one of the most technical tracks (Val di Sole) had some of the closest results in the top 3:

Mens

1st. PIERRON Amaury 3:36.788
2nd. GREENLAND Laurie 3:37.312 (+0.524)
3rd. HART Danny 3:37.448 (+0.660)

Womens

1st. SEAGRAVE Tahnee 4:26.424
2nd. ATHERTON Rachel 4:26.547 (+0.123)
3rd. HRASTNIK Monika 4:28.029 (+1.605)

Of course, then you have the Junior Women where Vali Holl is winning every race by 10+ seconds. She won Mont Sainte Anne by over 40 seconds!

There are very different lines in skiing in particular DH.  Some of the slpit times are like 5-10 secs different.

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